Looks like a decent story for the sequel.. But much like the first movie, it’ll suck because the transformers look nothing like the transformers that everyone know.. If megatrons body was stolen from the US military then who was the decepticon that they threw into the ocean at the end of the first movie..??

or was it the humans???
(that scene where the aircaft carrier is dropping junk)

you know. micheal bay could have easily used this as an excuse to re-animate megatron as his G-1 self??

well the only thing we have left is imagination (guys try picturing the movie but with correct vehicles and voices?..and bumble bee instead of kicking the crap out of barricade not using a massive arsenal outsmarts barricade and gets on on him in the refinery.)

could you see the older fans cheering???

as with the new movie,great for the new fans not sure about otyhers

i think (even though it has not got the graetest storyilne) transformers II will be good if bonecrusher returns and blackout returns. and i want more long scenes on Cybertron!!! i think the animating rocks as hard as frozen custard.

I wanna see more lone scenes of Megan Fox… (then again who wouldn’t)

Now on with the topic, i think your idea jackster on having long scenes of cybertron wouldn’t be a bad idea.. I’m just hoping that they’ll get the atmosphere, the whole robotic feel, the artificial intelligence, the technology, something that a little kid would dream up, i would love for them to come up with something like that.. I would even go as far making it look more bladerunner-ish, but more chaotic..

What i reckon Michael Bay should do, is have a competition on which little kid from across the globe can come up with the best cybertron idea.. Because im sure there is a kid out there who has read all the “choose your own adventure” books, who is into sci-fi novels, who likes space and astronomy in general… i’ll guarantee that they’ll come up with an idea 1000x better then anything that Bay, Orci and co. can come up with.. Because you gotta admit, the first movie did kinda suck, the only eventful moment of the movie was Megan Fox and the end credits..

What the hell hapens to Barricade in the movie

Well w00kie, for someone who refused to watch the movie you sure do know a lot about it…

And yeh, I too hope to see more of Cybertron. Maybe a few protoform bots running around. And maybe even get to see ShockWave (there were a few concept renders of him).

And to Jackster…
I recall Prime busting his head open (eyeball popping out) and he got a blade in the neck, so not expecting to see him in the sequel.

…And yes more Megan Fox would NOT be a bad move

Seems like the usual Hollywood Sequel Story to me. (Everyone Returns And Fights Again, And the Bad Guys Lose Again.) But, I’ll still watch it.

aw nutz… been wishing that the whole series would turn up to be an all out Sci-Fi war movie. HOPE THIS TIME OUR MILITARY gets a royal(REAL) POUNDING like it is supposed to against a “supposedly” advanced race of war machines.Meaning we tried our best but without the autobots we are screwed scenario.
(not that human with a half lit firecraker kills blackout crap again.)

If the next movies become a propaganda of how our military kicks butt(ala independence Day style crap) BS again with the autobots playing third fiddle (yes not second…THIRD FIDDLE), then they surely lost the plot and the autobots might as well be there for decoration.

This is AWSOME. michael bay should make a beast wars movie. i am the biggest fan ever are you going to have megan fox

Beast wars would have looked much better in the style that micheal bay made the g-1 transformers, that organic feel.

I just hope they put jetfire in it does megatron come back. hope it is as good as the 1st one

Well to be honest, that news does sound quite exciting, but it sounds a bit too human. Where has all the classic characters that we all know gone?
If there is going to be new TFs’ Then I think that all the classic ones should come back, I know that some of them have, but it only seems fair that Michael Bay at least gives the old school TF fans a memory of what they saw as a kid. Now I’ve heard that their going to shoot in Philadelphia, and they’re starting shooting in June, so at leats bring Sounwave back. He was the one that basically mad people sit on the edge of their seats. So, please Michael Bay, Bring the old TFs’ back.

soundwave was AWSOME. you should put all of the cool transformers in.that would be pretty cool. also, you should have ironhide change to decepticon like he did in the ORIGINAL transformers.

Yeah, He was pretty awesome, but they should AT LEAST have Primus or Cybertron in it, or Unicron, he was cool:-).

agreed, alas the list of autobots and decepticons seems rather thin.
The old transformers had at least enough numbers from each side each episode to feel a little like a war.

as fro micheal bay being fair to us oldskooler, yeah right..
the moment he made decepticons easy to kill by us humans he inadvertantly made the autobots rather useless..

I hope the next movie has a war movie feel to it and NO NOT US HUMANS patting ourselves on the back saying GHEEE that was easy.
(transformers are about transformers and not a boy and his car!!!! or aour military winning easily agains something that us primitive cannot understand fully)
It is about time the autobots be given the opportunity to prove their worth.

Having a weak enemy sux.. imagine technically advanced beinge being killed by a pea shooter???!!!

ya agreed. megatron was always b.a. the autobots never won in one battle

did you guys ever think about the minicons whatever happend to them

yeah.. not sure how bay would incorporate “minicons”??
still he’d rpobably make them so weak homans can kill them by just sneezing on them

what would be killer is if they incorporated some of the decepticons that were able to transform into the one mega-decepticon. megan fox was hot but the side little love story has to go….who cares?!?! I do agree about the discussions that the fact that the humans shouldn’t have been able to hurt blackout or skorpinox….what’s the point of the autobots then…did anyone of the auto’s besides Opitmus kill a decepticon? I don’t remember if they did. All I saw was Optimus whoopin’ some ass and then the rest get their’s handed to them! Poor Poor little Jazz…he was just Megatrons bitch. I do say the effects of the movie were cool, the editing was shotty, the looks of the transformers were new, inovative with our times, and really..on that point..why would a super advanced space robot want to be an old f-15 instead of an F-22…I would imagine that the transformers have their own opinions also and one last thing I wish bumblebee hadn’t been a camarro but it’s better than a shitty VW bettle!

oh…and on a side note…the modelesque millitary guys need to go also…the part where the army guy tells “Sam” that he’s a Soldier now was LAME!

ya well bumble bee being a camero rocked i think nd go to you tube they are showing the casting of the transformes they have soundwave but not jet fire grr… but megatron is suppose to be stronger nd i think the dinobots will be in it

well i saw the casting thing bot wat ever

Hey does anyone think Jazz Is coming back? not trying to be stereotypical, but they only kill the ‘black’ autobot?????!!!!

hahaha, nah man. Poor Jazz is toast. That was sad :[

I wish they could bring in SoundWave, some guy was telling me that little b!tch robot was soundwave because he turned into a boombox… I hope to god not. I want real soundwave complete with badass voice and cassette tape backup. hehehe

The transformer they dropped in the ocean had half a leg missing… IIRC, megatron never lost a leg… although they wanted you to believe it, I got the impression that megatron was not who they dropped… but, I watched the ending thinking, “how can they set themselves up for a sequel”.

First hint, “Prime, sticking the cube in your chest is suicide… it COULD destroy you both” (read: it’s not certain to – so, it also wasn’t certain to destroy megatron).

Second hint was the 1 legged decepticon.

Finally (the obvious) was starscream flying off.

They have lots of ways to go.

rewind minicons are in the movie how do you explain the scorpion thing and why dont they do a beast wars movie that be titts

Well, the way I see it in regards to the transformers cars not being quite like the originals… ESPECIALLY Bumblebee, you have to think in terms of era. Back in the day when the cartoon transformers was created, a volkswagon beetle was a popular choice of automobile for adults and teenagers alike, both female AND male. Add the fact that in the movie, Bumblebee in an effort to impress his human companion, takes the form of a brand new state of the art model. What you get as a result would be a storyline that would be very hard to believe. What 17 year old male would be impressed with, or for that matter, caught DEAD driving the Volkswagon New Beetle? ESPECIALLY if he is trying to impress a hot girl!

Now you add in the fact that General Motors was a major advertising partner for the movie and without a large portion of the films budget came from GM Money, would you want to be the one to tell GM that you were gonna use a Porsche and a Volkswagon for two primary character vehicles?

With Jazz, who was originally a porsche, I personally feel that using GM’s Pontiac Solstice was a wize choice seeing as it is GM’s answer to the compact high performance roadsters, once offered only by European car manufacturers. Now along the same lines of thought though, I am curious why GM didn’t subsitute the “Solstice” with the SKY Roadster made by Saturn, a GM company, which is the platform that the Solstice is designed off of in the first place. I think the SKY looks a lot sharper than the Solstice anyday.

One more thought in regards to Era. The movie takes place mainly in the United States and the United States military and government are a large part of the plot. If you recall, Starscream’s original model of jet closely resembled a Russion SU-37 fighter which at the time appeared much more sinister than the jets used by American forces of the same era. Today, there is almost no other jet that looks as menacing as the F-22 Raptor… and not to mention a heck of a lot easier to blend in over US Airpace.

I look forward to seeing the sequel, and I hope that I am not disappointed with it like most other movies’ sequels.

bitsurround has good points…

Personally, I like that they added the Terminator2-like ability to morph into other things. Sorta explains why they come to the earth from outer space and look like everyday items we see.

as with the BS that porche and volks do not allow their products as part of a movie, that tue is flawed. IF you can put ’sam’ passing a porche car showroom and have the new bumblebeen litearlly slap the Beetle, then you can get them as transformers.

Rewind, not sure if you were referring to my post by the above quote from your reply. I never said that Porsche didn’t do advertising partnerships and such or didn’t allow their products as part of a movie… in fact, the producers wouldn’t have been able to use the scene of Sam’s dad teasing him with “Drive through the Porsche dealer’s lot” gag if they didn’t have permission from Porsche… or for that matter the fact that Sam’s dad is actually driving a VINTAGE porsche.

As far as Prime morphing into a jet to even the odds against Megatron, that would be FAR beyond the scope of “Sticking to the original cartoon storyline”. I mean, if they were going to go that route, it would make the entire plot and scene sequence totally limitless and not only would they lose a large fan base for the sake of “creativity”, they would essentially have to have added about 2 more hours of action sequences and their FX budget would far exceed the potential box office earnings.

Overall, the autobots and decepticons alike stayed within their “one vehicle form/one robot form” guideline, with the exception of bumblebee, and the little dastardly and pesky “baby decepticon” (obviously a plot based creation cause I don’t remember that little thing in the cartoon). Bumblebee’s transformation into the 2009 Camaro Concept was apparently more of a “coming out of hiding” type of event if you ask me. Yes, they tied it into a “I’ll show you” type of action to resolve the insulting remark made about his “Beat up old Camaro” look, but if you think about it… all the other Autobots took the form of the latest models of the vehicles they used. Bumblebee was Sam’s “Guardian”, and the two of them would have never been joined together in the new model camaro form on a mere “4000 dollar car budget”…. so the OLD camaro was the answer to bumblebee becoming “Sam’s car” in the first place. If Sam’s dad wasn’t gonna drop a second mortgage on a porsche, he CERTAINLY wasn’t going to buy Sam a concept version of a High Performance classic american sportscar.

As for “slapping the beetle” scene, that could have been construed as a “slap in the face for the old bumblebee” but my personal opinion is that it added a touch of nostalgic humor as well as a good laugh from Actor Bernie Mac as “Bobby Bolivia” as the classic fast talking used car salesman.

the first movie was closer to the comic book story line than the tv show, in the comic book shockwave, not starscream, was megatrons chief rival for power, in the comic shockwave followed the dinobots to earth and was trapped in tar just as the dinobots were, shockwave awoke first to assume command of the decpticons, followed by the dinobots, the ps3 game gave some hint to this when they had shockwave as one of the decpticon bosses in the game, and for an added bonus, shockwaves personality was a copy of Mr Spock from Star Trek complete with logic and pointy ears

Apologies first. I did not mean to swipe you directly,

>
Rewind, not sure if you were referring to my post by the above quote from your reply. I never said that Porsche didn’t do advertising partnerships and such or didn’t allow their products as part of a movie… in fact, the producers wouldn’t have been able to use the scene of Sam’s dad teasing him with “Drive through the Porsche dealer’s lot” gag if they didn’t have permission from Porsche… or for that matter the fact that Sam’s dad is actually driving a VINTAGE porsche.

If that was the case then WHY not have Jazz as a porche???IF you can have a “Vintage” porche” and porche showroom WHY CAN”T YOU HAVE JAZZ AS A PORCHE??? what it has to be “modern”? old porches are still being owned and driven by people especially as hand me down hand cars.. much like ones
people have when they get their “licence” first time.

As far as Prime morphing into a jet to even the odds against Megatron, that would be FAR beyond the scope of “Sticking to the original cartoon storyline”. I mean, if they were going to go that route, it would make the entire plot and scene sequence totally limitless and not only would they lose a large fan base for the sake of “creativity”, they would essentially have to have added about 2 more hours of action sequences and their FX budget would far exceed the potential box office earnings.
Overall, the autobots and decepticons alike stayed within their “one vehicle form/one robot form” guideline,

I did not mean that optimus should become a jet nor more money be spent on doing this by the FX team. WHAT I mean is IF a transformer can change his car form “AT WILL” to impress Sam’s potential bedmate then youc an be sure that all other transformers can do the same in or just before a “fight”. Bay shoudl have done more explaining as to why they keep only one form.
logically if you can change your transformation “at will” then wouldn’t
you do so to even the odds?? choosing your own transformation at will
is something that you would abuse in a fight especially if you are getting pounded wholesale.LIKE IN TEH LIVE ACTION MOVIE..OPTIMUS WAS GETTING POUNDED.

In the cartoon it was teletraan with the aid of sky spy that repaired both decepticons and autobots based on what forms they were and what was around or what vehicle happened to be below skyspy that matched.
becasue of this each transformer had one transformation form
(unless they were a triple changer before earth)AND THEY WERE STUCK WITH IT WHETHER THEY LIKED IT OR NOT. this is what made it interesting, each trasformer’s alternate from came with pros ,cons and limitations and it was intresting how they worked within their forms.LImittaiosn bring more depth top characters.

this is why the autobots where predominatly car forming (with a few exception and I did explain maybe why) and decepticons are mostly aircraft.Teletran was damaged so thingsmay have not been that consistent in repair to adapt the transformers to Earth’s environment.

Okay Imagine if you did not know who bernie mac was or if Bernie was not there, how would you interpret that scene?
Culture and social practices we have in the states are not necessarily the same or as well know in other countries.

Imagine that you were a fan of Bumblebee from 1980 and know transformers inside and out but do not get even US comedy or a healthy dose of US culture how would you interpret that scene???

Not so easy isn’t it?

IT can be interpreted in a wrong way. I know people from from China
(who in the 1990’s got addicted and know have a huge folling of loyal 1980’s cartoon fans base) and European(Finns,Dutch,Norwegians still remained loyal even after our it went off air in the states)who took it as a direct slap.

Why did the BEETLE HAD TO BE yellow piece of S### that was falling apart, it was nearby,and was hit by “the camaro” how else could you see it?

oh yeah as with things having to be modern This in itself is not a must.
your ol 80’s porche, 70’s freightliner cabover ,fairlady z or classic beetle are still in use, if not in a car show, as “handme down” to people getting their license. f-15s still fly in our airshows with similar color schemes to starscream and thundercracker so who said that decepticons had to be in a “millitary” hanger when they are more inconspicous in plain sight of public be it as a collection or exhibition?

As with “realistic” or why transformers had to be those car brands is also not validated. WHY a peterbuilt? because if you use a cab over optimus would only be 50 feet? PLEEEEESE, that is rich.
Hang around a truckstop long enough as a gas jerk and you will find that there are many cab over customs have the cab part “extended” that if you where to make it up optimus would be about 55-58 feet (not including trailer)
and with this and with the fact that in real life you can lift the cockpit of the truck 90 degrees to acces the engine (hence called cab over)and in some customs LIFT the back wheels up with build in hydrawlic legs, you really get an appreciation of the cartoon’s optimus as believable and possible to transform.

Bay just wanted to change things that is all and not for realism, fandom or accuracy.I expected something akin to LOTR with a mature serious deep plot,a trubute to fans but what I got was well below my expectations.Then again to the director it was “kiddie”, perhaps why there red flames on
the truck. makes optmus look more like a “realistic” toy..
The only valid excuse bay could give is he wanted to change it nothing more.

Not sure why you guys keep saying Starscream was originally modeled after an SU-37. He wasn’t. All the original generation decepticon jets were modeled after F-15’s. And judging from your writing and grammar, you probably weren’t around to know that.

Megatron would have stayed true if they had made him like some portable howitzer or something…which would have been more believable in my opinion…but then the story in the movie of how he got to earth would have had to change.

I think for the most part, those who were around to see the original transformers and who had them as toys were completely happy with the movie. We’re talking 31-37 year olds, which was the demographic the movie was aimed at.

I like the howitzer idea…but if only the “cube” did not “mass shift” and become a smaller object..

this hcnage that “someguy” mentioned is good. logical yes

as with most people who had the toys, it depends. Some guys I know liked the new movie loved the toys.. Others were a little more Transformers series fanatical. It is basically even but strangely

I know people around 30-40 y/o and the spread is almost
60/50 from the total guys I know be it States,China or Europe
(the 60% are those who wanted G1 closeness.)

but there is fact in washat was said. many who have the toys from their childhood loved the new live action movie while some of those who did not have wanted more a “character depth” beyond the series.

As for me I can almost guess how and what each transformer from
the first season would say and do. (thanks to getting into the zen of their persona due to comics and my worn out VHS tapes.)
Something some fans can almost visualise.that is if you cared more about the characters than the toys.

what was megatron suppose to be and how did he get that way?

I watched the cartoons in the 80’s and the cartoon movie as well. When this movie came out I was sceptic on how good they could make them look. After seeing it, I thought the movie kicked butt for the most part. Then after seeing it a couple more times and looking at it more and more, I have many questions about why they did certain things or left out others. But, the bottom line is, for me, is that I enjoyed the movie, and can’t wait for the sequel. The fact that they changed the forms and made them look more cool and tough was fine!!!! They had to keep up with the times.
Just my two cents…….. Cheers.

They really should please us all and bring up the whole unicron galvatron story that would be better. Unicron and Galvatron vs. Optimus. Thats more of a threat to earth than starscream But if they did end up using Unicron i wouldnt want them too pul a FAKE galctagus on us ala rise of the silver surver.!!!

Well, this might be a insignificant post for most, but I never watched Transformers and I thought the movie was fantastic. The Special effects were awesome (much better than Indiana Jones). All the characters were believable. I know you guys are T-enthusiasts so you know your shit but from a T-virgin’s perspective, it all looked like it was supposed to be this way.

can i still post?

wookie pointed out Megatron’s “toy origins as a “micro changer” toy
(the toy line megatron was from was before the trasnfromers animated series,alas the japs got the tf cartoon a year after we in the west got it hence I could not call it “anime”)

As for the cartoon’s perspective, we do not know what megatron was but
there are hints on the first episode.Firstly look at sound wave.
what did he tramsform into and what was laserbeak? Notice there was NO
“mas shifting” even Shockwave did not mass shift but was sued by bruticus as a LARGE gun in later episode.Perhaps Teletran ans sky spy could not make sense of how to adapt Soundwave to eath conditions based on
his cybetronian form. perhaps skyspy went over a cassetteplayer and foudnit a match beside its small form. In a way does make sense.Like megatron maybe that was the closest thing or the only thing scanned that remotley matched. As I’d expect possibly mass shifting was meant chew up a lot of energy hence in the animated movie he and soundwave have not transform.In the cartoon however they do..often, perhaps megatron
has some extra energon to burn..not very power efficient..perhaps the decepticons were not built for that.

In the cartoon Trailbraker asnweres spike’s quetion why the autobots transform. He says for disguise.
However for the Decepticons it seems to be more for Advantage rather than disguise.(Soundwave’s is both)Soundwave’s specialisation is espionage
so logically it does apply.

As with Megatron not being a jet like most decepticons,
We can only guess being an older model from another era the decepticons may have had other needs unlike your jet deception.(built for speed and hard hitting power quite versatile)

I mean he was made way before Optimus prime and was sort of newer than alphatrion (who in the cartoon DOES NOT TRANSFORM)It would be more porbable megatron was made to Eradicate KEY positions. Perhaps even
Autobot leaders.

We could even suggest that the fact that in his earth form he has to be fired by another decepticon means that his transformation optimises him to put out all resources to focus his energy as a destructive beam, at the cost of being completely helpless in that transformation, needing another decepticon to pull his strigger and to watch his back.
This suggest he oculd have been some sort of great portable “weapon”

In the animated movie Megatron becomes “Galvatron”. Maybe this has some truth to what Megatron was on cybetron. if we take into account the first episode on cybetron had no mass shifting, and that megatron turned into a gun.

a fan has made a custom of what megatron
perhaps it could be like this sicne it is closer to the animated generation 1

here is the link
http://www.transfiguretoys.com//index.php?main_page=index&cpath478

By the way orson welles died back in the eighties right after the movie. If michael Bey is reading this hee hould def bring in unicron maybe have unicron summon megatron from under the ocean or something like he did in the cartoon. That would be a movie to look forward to.

cant wait tell the movie

yeah me too (even if there are some negative connotations for this)

I think the harsh criticism of the first film is mostly undeserved. Seriously, only a sliver of fans would enjoy watching old cars make their ‘epic’ return to popular culture–I see nothing appealing about watching an old VW bug, old Nissan vans, and various other eyesores from the old cartoon (we need to finally admit this to ourselves) come back to life. Not to mention that Megatron as a pistol never made any sense back then, so the newcomers likely wouldn’t have enjoyed seeing a pistol transform into a 30-foot tall robot–it just wouldn’t make sense, so I can see why they scrapped it. The only real beef I have with this film was the editing, which I think plays into a majority of the criticisms. We see Barricade lying in a heap after the fight w/ Bumblebee, and then all of a sudden he’s chasing after the good guys, and then he isn’t seen again. Following that, the marketing campaign had the tank listed as Brawl, and then in the film he became Devestator. The only thing I can see as an explanation is sloppy editing, since his name didn’t end up mattering much at all with respect to what was happening. All in all, the ‘diehard fans’ need to get off of their collective high-horse, expect a little bit of modernization (both for new fans and for general common sense) and just be thankful that they’ve finally done it.

The comparison with the Lord of the Rings trilogy is a bad example. Comparing a story that is set in what resembles the real world, i.e. Earth, doesn’t relate to a story set in a fictional world filled with monsters and wizards. The hardcore LOTR fans can appreciate the effort that Peter Jackson made to stick to the original story, and the newbies can just as easily enjoy the film even if it wasn’t entirely book-to-film. The TF cartoon was premised on the idea of alien robots that were already among us, disguised as things we see everyday. Who the hell sees a Porsche (I’m using Jazz) with a bunch of weirdo red,green and black racing stripes everyday? A Nissan Vennetta? Give me a break. If anything, the announcement from Voight in the film would’ve said, “If you see an obscure model vehicle from circa 1984-1987, be aware! It has a 60% chance of being an alien robot!” Friends who’ve never watched a TF cartoon have told me they’d rather watch modern cars that they see day-to-day over some POS blast-from-the-past. So Optimus was a Peterbilt instead of a Mac–big deal. He’s still the same character. It wasn’t like him being a different model truck made him any less Optimus Prime. The only regeret I have is that my personal favorite, Soundwave, really had no chance of making it into the film without some thoughtful reinvention, because he was a freakin’ cassette player. If you aren’t accepting what I said about the 80s cars, fine, but there are maybe 50 left on Earth with a freakin’ cassette player, and they don’t even sell cassettes anymore, so how would Soundwave have made it in? I get it, you’re mad that they movie ’sold out’ to product placement, using GMC cars. You might have a legitimate beef there, except that these movies need to recoup their money some how, and if the film turned out to be a flop (which was entirely possible given today’s market) then at least they got some of that money back by GMC paying them to use their cars. I also understand the beef with Michael Bay as the director. Yes, he does primarily action films, and yes, they all follow a similar formula. So what? Would you rather get stuck with some artsy $#!& movie about the robots’ “feelings/emotions”?

well i agree that the movie had bad editing but if you jus think about it it was stilll a great movie. It helped people who didnt like transformers at all have respect for em. some people that i know hated transformers cause of the the new show. it is nothing like the other one the graphics dont even look good. they look like sticks with legs. well any way the movies help the transformers get more fans and makes little kids to have a something they can look up to and even collect.

If it were possibly a 911 Carrera from 2007, then yes, I would, and I suspect many fans would find that appealing. The old stuff just isn’t common enough to attract any borderline fans. Even having watched the show when I was young, I wouldn’t find an old Porsche as appealing on screen as a new version. A Nissan Quest? Really? There is no chance in hell that people are going to look at a Nissan Quest squealing into battle cool. Besides, Iron Hide was the tough guy on the Autobots, even in the 80s–it was a stroke of luck that the kids back then didn’t understand that minivans are LAME, and in no way represent toughness. The last two arguments over Optimus and Ratchet have very little appeal. So Optimus was a Peterbilt over a Mac. BIG DEAL. He still ended up looking the same when he was in robot form, and his color scheme was mostly the same if you ignore the flames (which by the way actually weren’t bad as far as style goes). Ratchet ending up as a Humvee-style medical vehicle made more sense if only from a storyline standpoint–since the robots were attempting to blend in, if Ratchet had crashed in a hospital, that defeats the purpose of going undetected, would it not?

It was the A-Team that made the van cool. If there had been no A-Team, it would be just another ugly van. Part of the benefit of doing these movies years after the franchise was first created gives the people in charge the capacity to make them more appealing to new and curious audiences, and that includes giving them minor changes and adjustments. The Transformers are the perfect franchise because all of the old vehicles and concepts can be made to fit with current technology, and that makes the new audiences eager to see how the timeless idea of robots that turn into cars and planes, etc, can match up with all of the possibilities of new age designs. While purists might not enjoy it simply because its different, people who have been waiting for this movie forever are just happy to see it come to life.
Moreover, since the movie was an overwhelming success, and they’re making a sequel, it sure seems like those tweaks were met with popular approval rather that disgust. That seems pretty indicative that all the things purists were/are complaining about weren’t enough to turn off the majority of old fans. And another thing, Spielberg is hardly inferior. His failures are far outnumbered by his successes, with some of the highest grossing films of all time. Michael Bay is certainly no Spielberg, but his style of filmmaking worked pretty well with the movie, even despite the editing problems (which he may or may not correct in TF2).

I’m not sure what it’s going to take for you to stop comparing TF w/ LOTR. It’s very simple: LOTR is set in a fantasy world that doesn’t in any way relate to this world, i.e., TF. If someone remade LOTR in 20 years and butchered it with respect to the books or even the original film, then it’s redundant—the filmmaker made a shitty version of it, and that’s why it sucked. TF’s unique because it centers on technology. It can always be updated, always made to fit whatever time or place it requires. If Bay/Spielberg had made it set in the 80s, it would’ve been stupid because no one wants to see how ‘cool’ cassette players or old VW bugs were back then. They want to see alien robots disguising themselves as current technology, things that they see and use in their day-to-day lives TODAY, not 20 years ago. Another thing, the boxy-style robot argument is worthless. I don’t know why they made them that way in the 80s, but the appeal of having them as exoskeletal designs today allows people to see how the robots change back and forth; they can see which parts of their disguises become weapons, arms, legs, etc., which is part of the attraction to seeing alien robots who can disguise themselves as Earth technology. Your last two film comparisons fall into this same problem. King Kong can alwasy be remade, but the focal point of each remake is a prehistoric ape that is still alive (in a prehistoric setting) on some mythical islad, and that doesn’t change, no matter what year it’s set in during the remake. War of the Worlds, even if it was different from the novel/story, can always be remade because of the main point: aliens attack Earth, and Earth isn’t ready for it. The family aspect that Spielberg used appealed to the big draws in movies: families going to see family films. What could relate better to families than trying to safely get your family away from danger? And besides, the main idea was still there–aliens with superior technology bringing humanity to the brink of extinction. Maybe next time you should use a little bit of ‘logic,’ and check your own desire for nostalgic satisfaction at the door before you try to rip a movie for not being a carbon copy of its original source from decades ago.

apologies Y’all I tried typing in manually to quote each lines for my responses but this forum doesn’t seem to allow me to. So read my reponses after reading your won on my posts.

First of all, if I’m repeating myself, it’s only because it is a necessity to rebut the same losing argument as before. Let’s first get a couple of things taken care of: when I said ‘timeless,’ I was referring the CONCEPT of TF, which is and always will be ‘alien robots who can change into vehicles and other machines that allow them to remain in disguise on earth while still fighting a war amongst themselves.’ So, the concept of TF being ‘timeless’ allows whatever version being created to model itself after the original, while leaving open the possibility of using present-day machines. All this talk about ‘sacrificing accuracy’ doesn’t hold water because the premise of the whole thing and the essence of the characters was intact—I have yet to see an example of how a change in appearance for ANY TF CHARACTER has substantially changed that character. Next, my use of the phrase ‘superior technology’ wasn’t meant to and shouldn’t translate to “infallible/perfect.” Just because something is ‘superior’ doesn’t mean it can’t be beaten. The Decepticon’s hacking into the network was a tactical move, something that experienced military types might employ to hinder the enemy. To say that they shouldn’t ‘have to do that’ just proves my point: it isn’t that they were superior intellectually, it was the technology itself, and technology can always be analyzed and adapted to fit a situation. Further, nothing shows that they would automatically understand earth’s technology or language, so using the internet/eBay/whatever was available to adapt just follows the premise: robots in disguise. Besides, if they are supposed to be in disguise, what’s the point of being in disguise if they were indestructible because they were superior? Saying that because you occasionally see classic cars around they should use them isn’t very strong. Most people who have classic cars keep them under wraps unless they go to a car show; what’s more important is movie people have to hunt down and replicate models that aren’t in production, which would be a pain in the ass. So using modern GMC cars served multiple purposes: (1) easily accessible models, for both TF and human use, as well as sets and props, etc., and (2) it helped to cut some costs. This whole “selling out” thing only works if it damages the integrity of the premise, which it didn’t, so that fails. Also, what about Prime changed so much that the essence of his character was damaged? His lines were only funny sometimes, and most of the time he gave those monologues about ‘sentient beings’ and whatnot. His speeches echoed the same type of leadership qualities that old fans recognize from the cartoon and new fans can easily understand. With the exception that he pretty much had his ass handed to him by Megatron (I expected him to put up a better fight), everything was the same. Following that, the changes in color schemes and model types didn’t alter anyone’s character. Jazz was still the one who had a taste for human pop-culture (hence the sportscar), Ratchet was the medical officer (the emergency medivac or whatever that was) and Ironhide was the tough guy (actually made BETTER because he was a heavy duty pickup instead of middle-aged crisis minivan). You say, “cassette tapes are still being made in the Middle East,” and I say, SO WHAT? They interacted with the American military and all of the human characters were American, so that doesn’t make any difference. If anything, a cassette tape/player showing up would be a red flag for anybody having a grasp on the obvious, i.e., cassettes aren’t common enough to constitute a good disguise. Finally, I’m hardly losing my temper, although I admit it gets frustrating busting up the same arguments over and over again.

For starters, no director ever intends to make a direct one-to-one rendition of any original story. They might come pretty close, but it’s never 100%, and the reason is that’s the whole point in having a director/producer. They are put in charge to give the story a certain humanizing quality when it’s translated from print, either a script or a comic or a TV show, to film. Ask any director, and they’ll tell you some things just don’t work when the transition is made, and their job is to move things around and make it work as best it can, whether it’s the setting, the dialogue, back-story, whatever. Sometimes they do well (LOTR, Spider-Man 1 &2, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man, first remake of Ocean’s 11, Batman Begins, Sin City), and sometimes they do poorly (Hulk, Daredevil, da Vinci Code, Ocean’s 12 & 13, Captain America). As far as this movie goes, it might not be the closest to the original, but given all the technical stuff they had to explain I think they did a pretty damn good job.
Second, how did the plot line not come through? The coordinates on the glasses would have led the robots to the Cube, which the movie tells us was where they built the Hoover Dam (around/above it to keep it hidden), and we assume that it was too big to move around safely. Moreover, movies tie up loose ends all the time with coincidences that both (a) work well for the plot and (b) make sense. Given the nature of both finding Megatron in the ice and his assumable relation to the Cube (markings, similar technological makeup), why not store them in the same place since no one is likely to find either of them anyway? I’m not surprised the used the two in that way. Like I said before, given their anxiety about how this film was going to do, not just in sales but in appeal, they had to leave as many things resolved as possible—the only thing worse than making a bad sequel is having just one film that ends with the direct idea that there will be a sequel and it never happens. Even with Starscream flying away, one could go either way on sequel/no sequel since the main plot line (get the Cube/keep it away from Decepticons) was finished.
It doesn’t get much more logical than that, so, for a ‘newb,’ I think that about covers it.

Just when I didn’t think you’d say the same thing again, here we go. Like I said before, if someone took the original idea of a classic story and made a mockery of it, then it would be redundant that it wasn’t like the original—it would still suck because it was a piece of shit. Any one of those absurd suggestions (see woman-ape relations, diving board on the Empire State building, Linda Hamilton/Brian Kerwin) about King Kong would fall under that definition: GARBAGE. Bestiality is inherently distasteful, diving boards on the then-world’s tallest building would never happen because no one, man or beast, would be allowed to dive off of it, and Kong escaping without coming to the states would irreversibly damage any and all premises to the original story, for instance, the “old world meets new world” theme—if Kong never comes to the states, then that’s destroyed—you’ve just turned King Kong into Tarzan.
On a final note, Spielberg’s last few films include Indiana Jones 4, Transformers (production), Flags of Our Fathers/Letters from Iwo Jima (co-production), Munich, and War of the Worlds. Excluding WotW and TF, I’d like to hear how any of those films lacks ‘class.’ Also, so what if he remade WotW, as you say, ‘for money?’ EVERYBODY IN HOLLYWOOD DOES FILMS FOR MONEY. There is not a single director who wouldn’t have done the new WotW at that price. Not one. On the other hand if he had Cruise build his own exo-suit and do battle with the aliens, then you’d be able to say that the film sucked because the whole premise (aliens w/ advanced technology versus humans w/o comparable technology) is DESTROYED. Not to mention that if Spielberg had picked any other actor for that role, the result would’ve been the same because the premise was still intact—humans (actor & family) struggling to survive an alien assault.
How many times is this ‘newb’ going to cut your argument to shreds? I’m putting my money on the over, which stands at a modest 15 ½ .

There’s so much in this last post I have to make a list:
1. I never said I liked ‘all Bay’s movies.’ That’s an assumption you’ve made because I liked TF.
2. “Any TF fan from the 80s would know Prime was badass.” Well, from what I remember, Prime lost a few fights with Megatron & crew a couple times, so as ‘badass’ as he was/is, he isn’t unstoppable.
3. If, as in the film, the cube was a source of unlimited power, why did putting the cube in Megatron’s chest “make no sense?” They already pointed out that Prime would’ve died just the same as Megatron, so what about it didn’t make sense? Lots of things about the cartoon didn’t make sense, I don’t see you questioning them all up and down, like say, the matrix blowing up Unicron and not the Autobots or Cybertron when they were just as close.
4. One last thing: Fox News is just as legitimate as any other news network in existence. Not only does that statement reveal your political opinion—which is irrelevant here—but it shows you have to try to reach out to emotion to argue your point. No matter how much I disagree with you, I wouldn’t call you an idiot who watches so-and-so because I’m mad.

In the past the Transformers Francise has always been a high grossing business.
After the cartoons ended even with/out an associated cartoon/s
or comics to newer or improved toys, the toys sold
and continue to sell consistently regardless.

It is this that Spielberg has rights to, not just making the live action movie.

Learning from what George Lucas did for Starwars,it is the
merchandising that ensures that even if the movie becomes a flop,
losses could be recouped.

Children (as in the newly converted)still have the greates number
buying power as they pester their parent/s for that “popular” toy.

When you go to any local toy store that sells transformer toys
look at the live action movie based toys. They each bear a “Dreamworks” logo.
Repaints of older energon,classic(not gen-1) or other
transformer spin off toys not related to the movie also bear the
“Dreamworks” logo.

Knowing this as common fan knowledge proves that even if a movie
does not fare well, you can still profit,even much more than what you can make
by the series and movie alone.

The excuse (other than profit or a whim)
of having to make the Transformers a different form or modern
using GMC products just in case the movie goes bust or for
popularity/modernisation/fresh ideas/or realism (which is BS)
and the sake of attracting the general movie watcher/s or sponsorship
really is not necessary (optional perhaps)
nor can it be validated other than the directory
wanted it that way (Mr. Bay) since the TOYS already make
much more on their own,regardless of whether
a movie is a flop or not.

However there is one more
thing that Spieldberg bought into hwen ye aquired the right.”THE NAME”

“Transformers” is an already established name and regardless of
what mockery you make of a movie people would still watch it because of the name.
An earnt reputation based on the cartoon series ,an animated movie and the toy line/s.
A long established loyal fan base and many spin off series
proof of its success.

Fans,would watch it,the general public would watch it,guaranteed
whether it sucked or not because it is “THE TRANSFORMERS”
people would watch it even if it is set in the 1980’s
or have older model cars.

IT IS A SURE THING IN TERMS OF PROFIT and attendance and not just in the WEST.
it would still be a success in popularity by numbers.

In Scandanavian countries like Norway or Finland
have a long fan base that still followed
TF long after the fad died here in the West
so it is assured the movie has an
audience even if not in the West.
(ever watch “a bridge too far”? IT was more popular in Europe that i was in the states
and is an all time war classic.)

In China since they got the cartoon in the 1990’s..
IT HAS BECOME REALLY POPULAR and they have a BIG fan base
so there is no real loss of profit there even if each
paying fan watched it once.

Transformers be in set in the 1980’s or 2007, it would still be popular.
so having it close to the cartoon but made believable
would have been a good choice and an even better movie
that it is now.What whe just got was a “great action film” but
what about some thing better than a “timeless classic”??
How about a “Tribute” what older fans would have been waiting for,
what the general public would have loved much more.

There was potential for more ideas to be put in much dept based on an accepted
universe,even a much deeper (finally)plotline and give the WAR a more holistic
and serious side than just action.

Alas the new ideas injected really didn’t complement the
subject it is based on, neither did it really seem to pay much attention to it’s
“realities” set by the series it is based on and older comics.

As the widely accepted universe, with set standards,most of the changes
really went against it much less
didn’t seem to give the subject it is based on its the
due it deserves when the live action movie made it into the screen.

The series before the live action movie was far from
“KIDDIE” if anyone had the imagination to build upon it
as both a concept and intention.

Kids (of the past)watched this because it felt a little more mature in nature,
had characters that can be related to despite the obvious lifeform difference
(a few good potential role models good and bad) and built into its own reality
based on ours and somehow missed “adult” subjects that were in appropriate to younger viewers.

that is what the cartoon was doing despite its crude animation
,the tacky sense of humor or the simplified language to
make (us then) kids understand what was going on and to
lighten up the subject that a civil war has spilled unto our planet.

The animated movie in a way succeeded and attracted many a
new fan at first by the better presentation (sadly it is the “BLING” that gets people first)
then by the plotline which was FAR FROM KIDDIE or just action based.

Unlike war with people, you CAN fix transformers.
This was their charm,Mortal to the enemy but beyond human frailness or limitations.
The wonder of their advancement and our feeble attempts to conquer or be like them.

Violence was there,but was a necessity like any war flick.
(kinda with anti-war undertones minus the “I love the military theme”,)
This is what it should have been.A war flick, sci-fi having
the Transformers carry the movie and not a HUMAN. After all it is about
the “transformers” not something based on aboy and his car with a slogan
“no sacrifice, no victory”
(which is indeed too cheesy,tacky and therefore unbelievable in execution)

The changes in the live action movie were all too major on many levels
and to accomodate minors watching it (the dialogue)

A change that would have been welcomed in the cartoon that would have benefitted
Micheal Bay’s rendition would have been a more complex and deep plot,
not as technical based as startrek but almost as wonder inspiring
in the midst of a great conflict.
Having Humans understand how Megatron works really fouls it up
since to understand it is to know how to kill it which basically
screws up the idea of “the transformers” being much more”advanced”
and the need for the Autobots as our reluctant protectors.

The live action movie was a great action fil, but that is just it..
“just and great action film” and not what it could have been
as people imagined it would be.

Popular yes with the masses, but what about the Universe itself?
It has been changed for the sake of a whim and $$PROFIT$$$ in the guise
of modernisation and percieved “realism based” leaving many out many things that made
the series.HOW HARD IS IT to see a freightliner tilt open, THAT IS already half of
optimus’ transformation and almost belivable.

Understand the designer of the toys and you will see he has been with machines for long.
(I worked in a gas station ,oil rig, and the docks and watching machines all day
you can see where the transformations of each toy teh cartoon is based on
come from, I will not give away too much, suffice to say I can see where
the Japanese base most of robot/toy designs)

I understand change is needed for the masses to watch the live action movie,
but they still woudl have watched it anyway regardless of the cars it is based on
is dated or no longer exists.That was always the “timeless quality” the cartoon had that
was sacrificed in the live action movie for the sake of pointless modern.

I could understand the jets being modern,but the f-15 is still in active service
and at mach 3.0 with it’s array compelements it is still a jet to be reckoned against
a raptor in the hands of a skilled pilot.(especially if it has some manueverability
enchancements,cybetronian style.)

IF Before the movie you imagined beyond the cartoon in depth
when you get into like any fan you will know.

The live action movie falls short of this.I expected better from
Micheal Bay at least an action flick with more depth since Spielberg
was the producer
(of whom I hold in high regard for his “minds eye”(look it up genius) which
Micheal Bay seems to lack and the person who made the script(I let you off this time)
also lack)

Lastly, as a fan if the live action movie was close to the cartoon,
would you watch it??

If you say “yes” then all other arguments about the Live action movie
have no weight simply because it proves that if it was done
that way it would have been IT WOULD STILL BE POPULAR…AND MORE..

Technically, I’m pretty sure Hasbro owns the rights to the TF toys. Typically when a movie or anything in relation to it (this would include the new animated series based on the movie) is made, the people involved with the movie still retain the rights to the movie properties, but they don’t own sole rights in the toys themselves, and then they get money for the use of the tagline from the film. Whether or not money was the sole factor in using GMC products is still irrelevant, because they were still more convenient to use. Following the copyright thread, it’s easier to get rights to use a certain brand of vehicle that includes so many different kinds (cars, normal trucks, utility trucks, etc.) than having to identify and locate and ask and receive the right to use a hoard of individual vehicles. Best of all, they fit the main idea for the characters, and the ones that were somewhat outdated (Iron Hide + minivan of any kind=LAME, and Bumblebee + VW bug=weak, at least for a male character) were actually improved by the transition.
Even as poetic as your childhood fixation sounds, you can’t make a blanket assertion about what every child who ever watched TF had for the reasons they like the show and use that as the only conceivable thought pattern for anyone who tries to translate it from then to now. Frankly, the thought of kids, depending on how you yourself are defining them, having thoughts about “civil war,” “TF’s as role models,” or “our feeble attempts to be like them” is a stretch. It sounds more like an analysis of a Robert Frost poem than a cartoon about alien robots. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but it’s rather unlikely for the target audience largely of the Saturday-morning-cartoon crowd and partly of pre-teens. Better still, this is more likely an account of what an adult back then would project onto the story, which is obviously valid, though not definitive.
Finally, I would still have watched the film if it was a one-to-one copy of the cartoon. This doesn’t mean my argument lacks weight. It just proves I’m a fan, I always will be, and I won’t allow my opinion of something new to be prejudiced because of its differences to an original.

Hold your breath in suspence as we all watch a little spy robot walk right through a group of people (the airport scene where Frenzy was going towards Barricade) and they convenietly fail to see him (oh wait i get it… he had his hand covering his right side of his mettalic face) Realism hey, Vengeful NERD..?? Here’s another one, explain to me how conventional weapons can take down ‘blackout’ with three rockets up his ass… damage scorpnok with sabre rounds and hurt starscream in the air during the final battle..?? Yet they needed the ‘cube’ in order to take down megatron..?? Why couldn’t they just use the same conventional weapons as take Megatron down also..?? Realism hey, Vengeful NERD..?? If you ask me, megatron seems ‘unstoppable’ so that aspect of your arguement seems irrelevant.. Now, I don’t know what you were trying to achieve with the “Optmius Prime got his ass handed to him on numerous occasions in Gen 1″ statement… but i said something along those lines in previous posts and on other topics in transformersfans.com, so I won’t even bother with that one… You should really stop rehashing MY points and re-badging them as your own, it’s getting rather lame..!! Look, I know that it’s a movie about giant robots… but shouldn’t something in the movie make some sort of sense..?? Rather then masquerading amongst other things a GMC informercial..?? I also have the sneaky suspicion that i’ve been outbidded on Ebay..

At least ID4 got the whole ‘realism’ and ‘advanced’ concept down pat, when US air force was trying to take the spacecraft down and shoot down the little ones, but to no avail, well… till the bullshit meter went through the roof with the “we have a 7 minute window of opportunity, so let’s fly one of their own spacecraft (the captured one), infiltrate their orbiting spaceship, plant a Michaelangelo virus, trigger the nuke… and get the hell out”, but they got it right prior to that.. This may seem like a bad example, but look at the cartoon ’superman – doomsday’, in this cartoon an alien lifeform (doomsday) crash lands on earth in some time capsule of sorts, but even a cartoon got the ‘realism’ and ‘advanced’ concept down to a tea… because no conventional weapon could stop it – not even superman with all his strength could deter him from completing it’s mission (well, he didn’t complete it, but before it’s eventual demise it was on track) That my friend is called ‘realism’ and ‘advanced’.. Maybe I should write down the definitions of both Realism and Advanced..??

You also mentioned in several of your replies that I’m repeating myself, well, if you haven’t noticed, your not doing a bad job of that yourself there, Vengful NERD.. I’ll tell you why, you see your posts are nothing more then rehashed versions of what I’ve been saying in all my posts not only in this topic but other topics on transformersfans.com, even before you jumped on.. You amusingly made the statement that your cutting my areguement to shreads… with what exactly..?? From what I’m seeing, all your doing is using MY points to argue MY points… That my friend is not an argument.. “It’s not that my arguement lacks weight” remember that remark..?? That pretty much sums up your ‘try hard’ persona, you right there just destroyed any form of credibility you may have had which wasn’t much to begin with..

What I’m also seeing is that your resorting to personal attacks to get your lacklustre messege across.. Your not exactly attacking me with harsh and distastful comments and name calling par say, but it’s the way your wording your posts that make out your not, but really you are..! That to me means there is someone helping you with your posts to make you sound more intelligent which brings us back to the “It’s not that my argument lacks weight”, yeah it is..! I’m pretty sure, and i’ll put my house on it, that you will reply to this post using the same rehashed crap used in previous replies… you will also be under the illusion that you once again feel as though you are cutting my arguement down to shreads, you will probably also make some childish comment such as “whatever you reckon” or “you can believe what you want” or “you don’t know what your talking about” etc etc… Yeah I can see it coming… but all i will say is stop wasting my time Vengful NERD, and keep whatever credibility and dignity you might still have in tact, because you will NOT win this one..

As a parting note, here’s something for you Vengeful NERD….

How do you suppose Optimus Prime, became Optimus Prime in the first place..??

I laugh at most these comments, thinking how little the people made this movie care what is said here as they sit in their mansions drinking copious amounts of alcohol in their harem.

Regardless
IMO optimus prime should lose the flames, and make him tougher

Megatron should breathe fire

Jazz should be a porche

And hot rod should come out and be a DB9 as ‘james bond’ type character

and no humans, i even hated spike. Humans = fraility

The problem with the first movie is that it lacks the sense of adventure, the magic, and the emotion that made the animated movie so great, anyone who disagrees with that is an empty-headed Bayhead who thought Gigli was fine entertainment.. Some of the issues I have with the movie are as follows;

1. The music had no emotion… its like as if they just threw those songs in for the sake of having music in the movie, that combined with the fact that it also doubled as a Sony BMG infomercial for new up and coming artists (minus Linkin Park of course).. I mean putting Vince DeCola and Stan Bush to do most of the tracks in the animated movie was pure genious, they knew how to convey emotion with every situation.
2. There was little conversation and focus on the characters and personalities of the transformers, even though in my opinion they were just brainless pieces of metal with legs.
3. Why not call ‘the cube’ the ‘matrix’..?? Was there a patent for the word ‘matrix’ or something….?????
4. The steady streams of self referencing… (the fat kid running and screaming that this is ten times or ten million times better then armageddon) What was the purpose of that..??
5. John Turturro in his career-worst performance as a very lame, amatuer ‘take charge’ FBI/CIA wannabee, sneering and barking orders despite lacking any credibility in the face of the threat at hand..

I have said this time and time again, it should have been easy to meet such simple requirements of a transformers movie, yet Michael Bay misses the mark by a country mile.. There’s no plot development, no logic, no character development, and no satisfactory closure… these traits were abandoned entirely.. And like i’ve said in previous posts, how can anyone screw up a transformers movie, is beyond me..?? I understand the notion that they needed to adjust the characters for ‘realism’… and don’t get me wrong I don’t mind changes here and there for the sake of modernizing so that its appealing, but ONLY if it warrants such change… However, and i guess i’m speaking on behalf of everyone here, I want my movies to be smart, respectful of whatever source material its adapted from (regardless of how dated it is or looks), to be well told and well performed by the actors.. Is that too much to ask..??

Let’s face it (and there will be people that will disagree with me on this one – and that’s fine…) Michael Bay is cliche, and cliche is Michael Bay.. And what we have here is a cliche ridden adaptation of one of the most beloved cartoon series’, that misplaces it’s concerns and completely squanders what could have been a timely live-action revival of Prime and the gang..!

I thought maybe a break from this site would do some good, and then here I see some comments going unchecked with the group. First of all, every time w00kie uses the term ‘realism,’ he has to be referring to something I’ve said; except I’ve never used the term. Not once have I used ‘realism’ as a reason to cover up any decisions Bay made in the first film, nor have I ever used it synonymously with ‘advanced technology’ in any sense. Second, no one ‘needed’ the cube to put Megatron down; it was used as a last ditch effort by Sam in self-defense, and given that he was otherwise unarmed, I can’t figure out what the problem is; besides, they almost did take down Megatron—as I recall, he was crawling on the street until Sam hit him with the cube. Thirdly, the humans using sabre rounds on the TF’s weren’t what would constitute commonplace in the sense of humans normally using bullets and explosives. The sabre rounds were equipped with high-temperature corrosive material; the TF’s themselves used weapons that would have to damage their shells and circuitry with something that would/could corrode the alloys/metals they’re made out of, so just because there’s a similarity doesn’t mean they are any less advanced. Fourth, it’s documented that the filmmakers refrained from using ‘matrix’ to avoid any entanglement with “The Matrix” franchise (personally, the less use of the word ‘matrix,’ the better, since outside of the first film and the last fight scene between Neo and Smith, the two sequels were very disappointing). Fifth, I agree with you that Turturro was a lame-brain agent; having said that however, Turturro is a comedic actor. It’s fair to say that Bay intended to make him a douchebag, but you’d have to ask him, and I think that expecting Turturro to all of a sudden become Chuck Norris is asking a bit too much. Sixth, I agree that Bush/DeCola did good work on the TF animated film. Having said that, getting good music in action films is like trying to fit Kirstie Alley into a clown car, and moreover, music today largely sucks—Linkin Park’s new album had 3 good tracks on it, whereas every previous album was flat out LOADED. I’m thankful that at least that made it into the film. Just to clarify, I agree the music on the film wasn’t as good as the original animated movie, but again, without just using the same stuff (which would’ve been a cop out), there isn’t much to choose from. Finally, the whole reference to Armageddon was just evidence that Bay has a sense of humor, best of all, about himself. He has to know that his films are formulaic and somewhat cliché; and since he didn’t actually write the script but he kept the line in just tells me he’s human.
As far as my arguments go, not once have I ‘re-badged’ any arguments of yours, w00kie, and I don’t need to. Nor do I ‘need someone to help me,’ as you called it. Every argument you’ve made has flaws. I’ve used those flaws in my posts to counter your arguments. That’s not plagiarism; that’s how debate works. Coincidentally, every time I’ve done that, you simply re-post using the same stuff; funny, I can still use those same points to my own advantage. So it sure looks like my ‘try-hard’ persona is actually just ‘find the flaws and exploit them.’ Again, that’s how debate works; on a side note, not once have you rebutted any of my arguments, and don’t kid yourself, I’ve made a few, and I’m still waiting for some honest criticism.
Whoa whoa whoa, I’M USING PERSONAL ATTACKS? Just a running tally, you’ve called me a “Bayhead,” an “Idiot who watches Fox news,” illogical and a plagiarizer. Every time I’ve referred to your ARGUMENTS (can’t stress this enough, arguments, not you as a person) I’ve characterized them as lame or weightless or weak. Not once have I called YOU anything.

hahahahahaha.. Who are you kidding here Vengeful NERD, you should really get of that high horse of yours..! You are NOT going to win this one, despite what you may think..

You know the sad thing about all this Vengeful NERD, you jump on this forum like a one hit wonder, all guns blazing, pretending to be more knowledgeable and informed then you really are on the topic… sounding all business smart when you say that “if they had kept the ‘boxy’ designs that they’ll look shit”….. blah blah blah.. You say that my arguements have flaws in them… they were left wide open on purpose (that doesn’t mean they don’t) because I knew you wouldn’t have any valid responses to my points (despite all your posts prophesing that you have)… You should really give it a rest with the ‘try-hard’ intelligent thing you got going at the moment, it’s getting rather boring..

But the questions still beckon…. Why wouldn’t the ‘boxy’ designs work..?? Has it been done before..?? You really can’t argue that point, but merely make opinions and some logical observations.. Why wouldn’t the old cars appeal to the masses (with some minor improvements)..?? Yeah to an extent you have, and i have taken that into consideration Vengeful NERD, but your schoolyard responses to these questions like “because they won’t”, just goes to show that you have know idea on the subject matter..
And on the topic that you brought up in one of your posts based on one of my points (and you can figure which one out for yourself)… How do you think Optimus Prime, become Optimus Prime in the first place..?? (don’t weazel your way out of it this time Vengeful NERD, because I am starting to wonder…??)

This is NOT a swipe at you Vengeful NERD, it’s merely an observation on your predictability and lack of understanding on the subject matter and the arguement, so don’t take it to heart.. OK..

And yes, the last two ‘matrix’ films did suck, they couldn have done so much more with that trilogy…. but that’s another arguement..

I’m starting to get the feeling, w00kie, that since someone has finally questioned your opinions you’re starting to feel a bit threatened; you use such pointed terms directed specifically at ME, even though all I’ve done is question your ideas, and not you yourself. I’m not trying to “win” anything; I’m merely stating my opinion, just like you.
I never said the boxy designs would look like shit. What I said was “I don’t know why they used that kind of design back then,” and then I offered a reason for using exo-skeleton designs. Also, I never said the old cars wouldn’t appeal to the masses, I said that in my experience the people I’ve asked said they’d rather see new cars and new machines transforming than old ones. You yourself called my points “logical observations,” so outside of that simple idea, what about it is incorrect? Also, I’ve never even used the phrase “because they won’t” when referring to any argument that you’ve made.
So, you’ve intentionally left flaws in your arguments because “you knew I wouldn’t have any valid responses to them,” huh? Well, I’ve answered your arguments using both your own flaws and some arguments of my own, and like I said before, you have yet to refute those, so I’d like a valid explanation other than “give it a rest.”
Finally, what is this Jones you have for “how did OP become OP in the first place?” If its trivia you want, okay, but I’ve never even hinted at any “argument you’ve made” in any sense about OP’s history/origin. But anyway, if you’re merely talking about the cartoon, OP started out as a normal robot named Orion Pax, and became OP when he was rebuilt by Alpha Trion after being attacked by Megatron. According to the cartoon, OP was the original Autobot. But then again, the comics have a slightly different take: in the Dreamwave version, he started out as Orion, and when Megatron killed Sentinel Prime, Orion was given the title of Prime, and then became Optimus Prime when he was rewarded with the matrix of leadership. In the Marvel version, he started out as an Autobot and was awarded the matrix of leadership after exemplifying extraordinary leadership skills and bravery in battle against the Decepticons. How’s that for understanding the subject matter?

I’m sorry to srping this on you Vengeful NERD, but I’m a purist – a ‘true fan’, so your dillusional and predictable mentality on this whole subject and the notion that you feel as though you have finally accomplished something in your life, which include make bold statements that I feel threatened… Not at all, Venegeful NERD, Not at all… I’m not even phased by your remarks, posts, replies etc etc… to the point that I haven’t actually taken any of your verbal diarrhea seriously from the outset.. regardless of what you may think..

You see, as I’ve said in my previous post, your a pretender.. Your no fan, your just someone who’s seen a few episodes of gen 1, didn’t think much of it, and doesn’t care about Bays ‘adaptation’ of the series, and feels that the changes had to be done to coincide with the new generation so it doesn’t lack appeal.. The most successful adaptations are the ones that stick closest to the source material.. An adaptation is basically a limitless ATM card for the studio willing to reign in erratic hack directors like Michael Bay.. Vengeful NERD, did you like The Shawshank Redemption and The Green Mile..??? I did, many others like me liked it also, reason being… they were almost word for word transcribed from Stephen King’s novels.. I’ve said this before (and yes, Vengeful NERD, I am repeating myself) the ‘boxy’ designs could have undergone some ‘minor’ changes, but they could have done it without making them all look like mangled metal..

Bay has heaped a non-stop stream of derision and hate on the very property he’s been put in charge of ‘adapting’.. A good example of this, is not long after the movie was released here in Australia that I read in one of the publications, can’t remember if it was in the local rag, empire magazine or some other publication, either way this is what he had to say “Have you seen the ‘86 movie..?? Have you seen the cartoon..?? I tried to and I wanted to shoot myself..?? Well, I’ve been saying that since I jumped on this forum, so I was spot on with that one (alas… that Michael Bay and Speilberg have never actually sat down and watched the series in it’s true form and merits) True fans / die-hards like adaptations to be spot on or as accurate as possible without compromising on anything..

Look at it from this angle Venegeful NERD, did you like the old cartoon known as ‘Ulysses 31′..?? Would you be pissed off at the fact that Ulysses’ son who in the cartoon was called Telemachus and in the live action movie (if there was to be one made) had a completely different name or little Nono, the robotic sidekick of Telemachus, being changed to a robot resembling Number 5 from the short circuit movies… would you be pissed off, or would you just simply say, “well it needs a change” to appeal to the new generation or some ‘blast from the past’ bullshit…?? What about ‘thundercats’..?? Would you be pissed off if cheetara, had stripes instead of spots, that would defeat the purpose of calling her cheetara, wouldn’t it..?? Or what about Mumm-Ra being anything other then a mummified villain and his dog Ma-Mutt being changed into a great dane rather then the undead bulldog which he was depicted as in the 80’s cartoon… and breathing fire rather then poisonous gas?? Or what about the old classic ‘C.O.P.S’, would you get pissed off, if they depicted ‘bulletproof’ as a white guy rather then a black guy..?? GI-Joe, well, we won’t go into that one, as they are in the finishing stages of the live action version, so we’ll see if Stephen Sommers doesn’t mess it up, but from all accounts it looks pretty good, no wonder…. Michael Bay isn’t doing the freakin movie..

On that note, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree, because you can’t agrue with a true fan no matter how hard you try.. Call me stubborn, call me old fashioned, yes I am both and you can see why, but at least I’m not hiding behind arrogance and being someone I’m not..!

Oh boy ! it took me almost an hour to read all that … seems most of you who have posted above have been fans of transformer (cartoon) series, whatever has been on air since the beginning.
Now, let me introduce myself. I am from India, and had never seen any form of transformers before this movie.
Let me tell you guys, this movie was superb and simply awesome. You guys who are against (read calling them names )the movie and the directors and the creators of the movie, please think about this . I think out of the total no. of people who have seen the transformers movie,just like me, majority of them had never seen transformers before.
In fact, because of them , people want to watch the original series now. So they have boosted the popularity of transformers, and contributed more for it. They might have hurt a “true fan’s” feeling, but overall i think they made transformers famous all over the world.
So i will conclude my post by dedicating this line to the creators of transformers movie … “there is more to them than meets the eye” hahaha peace !!

Lets start by sayin, all the ppl that said negative things about the transformers movie, stop! Yeah I agree to dissagree! The movie was quite diff. and quite the same in many diff. ways. Come on ppl, start thinkin outside the box and stop gettin traped in it! U cant expect a cartoon to be made into a real movie, with the technology this day in age, and not have a few changes that had to be made so that ppl would not get bored with it! I have been a fan of Transformers since I was knee high to a cactus and I happen to love the movie and I have nothin negative to say about any of it, but I still love to take it back to the roots and chill with an oldie every once in a while! I hope that, and think that, the new movie will be just as entertaining to watch as the first one and maybe what Transformers needed was somethin new to pull in a new fan base, look at the last comment, this guy has never seen any Transformers before the first movie, and he loved it, not supprised! Anyway…try to keep an open mind when it comes to classics, things change and will change, but it just reminds the true fans of where it came from while still giving us somethin new to be amazed by! LATER TRANS FANS!!!

Wow, what a load of GARBAGE. I actually didn’t think you’d have the audacity to claim the mantle of “true fan,” but there you go and prove me wrong—the first and only thing you’ve proven me 100% wrong. There are no rules or guideline for this “true fan” persona you’ve created for yourself and whomever else decides to follow such a bad example. By implication, anyone who liked the new TF movie is not a fan of TF at all. How blatantly elitist can you be? If anything, the only people who have a right to decide whether or not the TF did the cartoon justice would be the original creators of the toys and their cartoon-maker counterparts. What fans, old and young alike, have a right to do is decide for themselves whether or not they liked it or whether or not they don’t. Merely picking one or the other doesn’t make the opposite any less legitimate for matters of opinion, nor can one claim that they are the “true fans” and thereby proclaim that none other than those who in their word will be given the ability to decide what can or cannot be done to the genre. Furthermore, what have you to say to those who didn’t like the original cartoon and actually enjoyed the film? Are they any less fans of TF than you? What if someone only liked the toys and not the cartoon? Are they still less of a fan than you? Do yourself a favor and don’t answer my rhetorical questions, because the answer is NO, they are not. Judging by the recent posts from t00fan and The Joker!, both new fans and old fans enjoyed the movie just the same. The Joker! had an excellent point, “Things change and will change, all it does is remind those of us who remember where it came from.” It doesn’t cheapen the old stuff, nor does it make the new stuff somehow better.
I still don’t know what question you’re referring to. What I do know is that what I said about OP was a quote taken from you when you said “any real TF fan would know OP was badass.” The point I was making was that OP lost some fights in both the cartoon and the comics. That’s a fact, not some stolen piece of privileged information, and I’d thank you to stop pretending that you came up with that idea all by yourself.
One final thought: I almost got upset when you said I wasn’t a “fan”—not even a “true fan” but not a fan at all. And then I realized just what this is. Before I entered this message board, I read all different opinions about the pros and cons of the film, and I felt that the con side far outnumbered the pro side. So I stepped on, offered my take, and was prepared to leave it at that. And then you came at me with all kinds of stuff, echoing the sentiment you just used here, “People who question my opinions are the very people who aren’t fans.” Taking this, and all the names you’ve called me, and how you haven’t rebutted any of my points with actual points and not name-calling, I realize now what this board means to you, w00kie. Here, you get to tell everyone how it is, how it should be, and thereby go about passing out labels to those who agree/disagree with you. Sadly, since I’ve been able to challenge your opinions/arguments, all you’ve done is label me without saying why they were wrong, and in doing that, you’ve made a qualitative judgment about me and my TF-fan “resume.” I didn’t come on here to “win” anything, and I’m not here to convince you of anything. I’m here to make a point, and you’re free to disagree, with the simple caveat that it’s done respectfully. I’ve been able to disagree with other people on this board, as they have with me, and each time it was done with respect. Sadly, that ability seems to have escaped you.

“Here you are TRYING to put words into my mouth by making blatant assumptions that I personally claimed the mantle of ‘true fan’.” Really? Try this one: “All your posts point to one thing, you are not a fan… People who question my opinions are the very people who aren’t fans.” Those are your own works, w00kie. Here’s another bite: “your a pretender.. Your no fan, your just someone who’s seen a few episodes of gen 1.” Judging from your own words, this isn’t an assumption, w00kie, it’s a fact. Further, but implication, since I’m not a fan, and that other people who question your opinions aren’t fans, and your statement, “but at least I’m not hiding behind arrogance and being someone I’m not,” all non-fans are ignorant or, as you so eloquently put it, “pretenders.” In your own words, you have just put down or labeled people as either “fans” (those who share your opinions) or “non-fans” (people who don’t share your opinions).
Honestly, I’ve never seen Ulysses 31 or C.O.P.S., although COPS sounds familiar, but vaguely. Now Thundercats on the other hand, that I did watch and did enjoy, and I must tell you those examples don’t follow the same premise as TF simply because they are based on characters with DIRECT, and not aesthetic connections with their namesakes, i.e., Cheetara was a cheetah, Mumm-Ra a mummy, etc. What I’ve been saying all along is that the TF movie kept the premise of the whole genre, which is the whole focal point of the idea of TF in the first place. If Bay had changed Thundercats like you describe, then yes, I would hold his feet to the fire.
Frankly, my favorite movies range between action films and comedies, so my #1 is probably Superbad, with TF in either 3rd or 4th behind Spider-Man 2 and Anchorman.

I will like to see Arcee in TF2 as well, but we all know that she’ll fall in love with Bumblebee and just like he help Sam with Mikaela.
I’ll said Arcee has a good personally.

Alright, this comment will be fitting the opinions of two fans that both disagree and agree with the Transformers 2007 movie.

First off, the body build of all the Transformers in general. We both agree that the structure of the Transformers fit the movie quite well. Why? Well, think about it. If we really wanted it to be like the G1 series, every Transformer would look especially blocky. Some of the opinions on this forum lead us to believe that they would prefer that instead of a more modernized style.

Second, the cars used to portray, say the Autobot Bumblebee. Would you really want to have a new VW bug in a chase scene with Barricade? I would be flashing back to Herbie or something. Michael changed it to the sporty looking Camaro to get across Bumblebee’s personality. We’re not speaking against the VW at all. We love the car. Just not in this movie. We agree that it wouldn’t fit.

Next, the storyline. It didn’t exactly capture the original storyline but we also have to consider the telling of the origin story. Maybe in upcoming movies the original baseline plot will start appearing as most would want. We’re sure that even the creator(s) of Transformers has to have some say in the production. They couldn’t make the movie without the creator(s) say so and ideas. They wouldn’t want to go to the movie showing and go, “What have they done?!” I mean, not to shift from Transformers, but the creators of Batman had a say-so in the movie production and even agreed on certain factors being changed such as the Batmobile, the suit especially, and the gadgets. Same applies for Transformers.

We also agree that certain parts of the movie could be changed. Like the day Sam and Bumblebee were being chased by Barricade. Sam barely woke up, got followed by Bumblebee, turned into a chase by Barricade, they picked up Megan Fox and sped off around the early afternoon, suddenly it became night and Barricade was still after them. They couldn’t put anything else in there? Sam and Mikaela decided to stay in this self-driving car the “entire” day without some sort of explanation as to what on Earth is going on? They could also change the length of like three days to at least a week. Come on. The movie took place within that little span of time yet still managed throw everything in that they wanted. It still sort of bugged us how fast the relationship between Sam and Mikaela bloomed so fast yet they really didn’t have the time to connect. They were too busy helping the Autobots and running for their lives.

We think this is all we really have to say. We respect other opinions because everyone has a different outlook on a certain thing. So, in general, there were parts of the movie we found perfectly suitable but we also found parts that could’ve used a bit of work. That’s it for our essay!

Love, HarlequinDoll and JokerGal

Harlequin: Ah! No, no, no Eugene! Arcee is supposed to be with Optimus!

Joker: Has been from the very beginning!

Another comment!
Love, HarlequinDoll and JokerGal

If someone made a Thundercats movie and swapped the characters’ cat-themed names with another cat’s appearance, you’d bet I’d be upset. Any 3-year old whose been to the zoo knows that cheetahs have spots, tigers have stripes, etc., and as simple as a 3-year old’s mind works, 9/10 times they’d ask their parents that very question–”Mom, if cheetahs have spots, why does Cheetara have stripes?” Again, that’s different from changing a color scheme and vehicle make/model for story structuring purposes.
You heard me right, w00kie, I don’t remember watching C.O.P.S. That’s because I watched GOOD cartoons. Just kidding, I honestly remember only flashes of commercials about the toys, maybe a friend or two had some of them, but that’s about it. As far as law/order went, when I was a kid, it was GI Joe, RoboCop or nothing. Funny, I just read today that someone is re-making RoboCop. Before you ask, I haven’t heard anything other than that, so no complicated questions about what may or may not happen yet.

First, I want to apologize to Shawn, for turning this page into an “I Love the 80s” board. After this last comment, I will try my best not to mention anything non-TF related from here on out. Having said that, I wouldn’t mind some new blood, some nobodies reprising those roles, and maybe making RoboCop darker, maybe in the same fashion of the Dark Knight (which was PHENOMENAL); I think Peter Welker has to be pushing 50-60, which leads me to believe he, as a cop, wouldn’t be out on the streets anyhow. KS is older than dirt, I don’t want to be responsible for him breaking his hip because I want him to get stabbed in the neck (again) by a cyborg law enforcement officer. Also, please don’t let ED-209 be ‘outwitted’ by RC, i.e., having it fall down some stairs. I’m BEGGING you.

No, no, no Arcee is going to be with Bumblebee, and as for Optimus Prime he’s oing to be with Elita 1, HarlequinDoll. Beside people is going to believe what going to that plan out.

Aw, Eugene, I hope you don’t think you thought hostility was laced in my little comment. I do apologize, seems I might of gotten the two mixed up or something. I always thought ArceexOptimus. Oh well, I guess I’m wrong! Hehe!

Love, HarlequinDoll

XOXOXO

wait a minute what happened to “Springer”? wasn’t he Arcee’s main squeeze after hot rod became Rodimus??

love it or hate it the live action movie has sure brought people out(including wookie.)TF has been on themay way before this movie so. lets hope the next one is much more than what the last one was.

To be honest Rewind, I haven’t been to the toys section of a Wal-Mart/Target/etc. in a while, so I’ll take your word for the Dreamworks logo on the toys. However, if what you’re referring to are the Armada/Energon/Cybertron toys, well there could be an explanation that would mean more than “profit,” such as the cartoons themselves are made by Dreamworks, or rather by a subsidiary company owned by Dreamworks—by this analogy, Spielberg has his greedy little hands on any number of properties made into toys, games, etc., but like I said before, he doesn’t “own” them in the literal sense of the word, and it’s very likely he doesn’t make every business decision for the entire network of companies.
As far as using GMC products for both the character vehicles and props, etc., if Bay decided to use them because he thought they were “cooler” than the original G1 models, then yes, I would say he’s a bit lazy. But we don’t know that for a fact, and assuming as much is just as lazy and rather hypocritical. For all we know, he made the decision after GMC made him a deal, that he gets whatever he wants for characters, props, sets, etc., and any director that has a sense of both financial and directorial responsibilities, in my opinion, should make that decision so that it allocates more funds for the sequences he’s going to create. But again, I don’t know for a fact what the reason was. On another level, I don’t know why Porsche wasn’t used. Like I said, neither I nor anybody hear has definitively said that Bay either didn’t want to use them from the beginning or that he received an offer and didn’t take it. For all we know, Porsche doesn’t need to have its products in a cartoon-based action film for us nerds—they are Porsche, after all—and it just as easily could’ve been them who said no to Bay. The same would work for Volkswagon or even Freightliner. One last thing, film directors trying to recreate something out of an older, possibly dated story, need only to be faithful to two things: his studio (they pay the bills, after all), and the original concept of the story. If every director was worried about not pissing off a fan base, then no one would want to do movies with the fear of a fan backlash every time something was changed for any reason. It isn’t fair to call him a “sell out,” or not a fan. Frankly, it doesn’t matter if he was a fan or not (but then I again, I don’t have the same problems with the film as you do) as long as he sticks to the original concept of the story. And he hasn’t “sold out”—he’s only done what Hollywood directors do, any director with a brain stem would act in much the same way, and like I said, WE DON’T DEFINITIVELY KNOW WHY Bay did x/y/z without any proof.
I didn’t mean to insult you Rewind for my criticism of your point about TF having “adult themes.” I merely don’t buy it. In my opinion, we as adults project those things onto the stuff we idolized as kids to give them some kind of value that they didn’t have or we didn’t see when we enjoyed them as kids. Personally, I watched TF for one reason: robots, alien or not, who can change into cars/planes/tanks/etc. are friggin’ awesome; I didn’t care what they say or do after the fact. Honestly, I went through most of season one and part of season two of G1 in the last week, and I have to tell you—an adult could not seriously sit through too many of them and not feel a little retarded. All I’m saying is that the toys were made for kids, the cartoons were made for kids to want the toys, and now the movie is made for kids to want to buy the toys. We as adults can re-visit those feelings we had when we played with the toys and watch the cartoons without that awkward feeling when we look at the strange plotlines the cartoon followed from time to time, and we are free to like it or not like it. Granted, the reason the movie came about is because the grown-up versions of those same fans wanted it done, but anyone who doesn’t admit to themselves that part of that reason is to attract new fans to the genre, and maybe then we can pass some of our old school taste along to them by getting them to check out G1, the comics or (heck) even Beast Wars/Machines is part of the fun—anyone who can’t honestly say that isn’t the case is only lying to himself.
The last thing you mentioned was the bio similarities between Arcee and Mirage. I gotta tell you, outside of the reference to the “cyberfoxes on Cybertron,” there isn’t much there to compare. Arcee is a hunter, Mirage is (was) not; Arcee’s friends were speedsters, Mirage’s were “high priced”; Arcee is actually eager to “sneak up on unsuspecting Decepticons,” while Mirage has to constantly be “cajoled by OP to continue his service with the Autobots.” Other than that one reference, they seem like complete opposites to me.

WOW! w00kie seriously. You know my son is a MAJOR fan. He’s three and I’m a girl and NEVER watched transformers growing up. So my husband and I went on a date to see the first movie opening night. I have never enjoyed a movie more. So we bought it and shared it with our son. We wouldn’t be fans if it weren’t for the new movie. Move over old man, the newbies are here and we want more!

Ps. We rented the older cartoons and my son said he’d rather watch the real Optimus Prime with the cube.

I rather like Bumblebee be to as Arcee’s lover rather then Springer. Bumblebee is the best boyfriend of Arcee that ever had and I know thats really going be in this sequel, I know it will, but our best luck is hope for their love and love never dies between Bumblebee and Arcee.

Bumblbee
+
Arcee

well, i wonder if they r going to have iron hide change sides in this movie

I apologize again for calling Springer a jerk, but the point is we know that we really want is Bumblebee to fall love with his own parther Arcee in the sequal.

Look, the fact of the matter is Micheal Bay’s depiction of the Transformers SUCKED. PERIOD. And furthermore I’m sick of people saying “Well duh, you had to modernize them, I mean come on 40 foot robot into a cassette or little car, I mean come on they need to be more modern, seriously…” UGH you assholes who can only enjoy the movie with a Bluetooth and some Starbuck’s must not remember THE TOYS. They all flawlessly transformed into their vehicle forms and robot forms while still looking pretty damn close to their cartoon specs. Something that those tools could’ve pulled off pretty easily, I mean we ARE talking about the creative genius behind The Gremlins 2: The New Batch, Arachnophobia, and… Freakaziod. “…..” It really blows when there is an opportunity for a really bitchin movie, but the starring actor is..Shia LeBoeuf. Oh yeah and Bumblebee radio-talks. Whatever the fuck that was supposed to be. Fact of the matter is, I want my nine bucks back, and i DESERVE to thunderkick Micheal Bay in the balls. Or simpler, the movie should not have been titled Transformers. I honestly would’ve rather watched fucking Space Jam.

I was starting to believe that I was on my own here, but there are other like me… God bless you halfway – what ive been saying all along, you summed it up beautifully..

These ‘new gens’ don’t know what they are on about, all they care about is how everything SHOULD be modernized and changed, what…. a porsche 911 GT carrera isn’t good enough to fit the mould of jazz..?? What… a cab-over truck isn’t classified as a truck because it’s not a big rig..??Why change and modernize, when you can simply improve.. I mean of all the porsche models out there to choose from, they chose a fucking GMC car, WTF..?? The only reason why these narrow minded, these miss guided individuals who people call ‘new gens / y gen’ (who might i add, are the same ones who are supposedly ‘die hard’ fans) wanted a change is because the old cars didn’t have cup holders to hold there starbucks..

As for Shia LeBoeuf, he’s not a bad actor, he just had a bad script to work with and was cast in a bad movie… that’s all.. But it wasn’t all bad, he got on with megan fox, what more do you want..

So help me god, If they murder Soundwave like every other character they did, I’m going to transform my foot into someone’s ass.

In the interest of saving time, I won’t rehash our debate in its entirety. I will pose the question, however: Is it wrong for fans of the old as well as new fans to enjoy this movie? True, it doesn’t look 100% like the original cartoon, but if it did, would it be as interesting? More importantly, what’s the point of being surpised or amazed by the idea of TF if you already know and expect what they will look like? The whole concept seems inherently boring and, quite frankly, the biggest showcase of plagiarism (I’m not sure that’s the appropriate phrase) I’ve ever seen. Like Bendis says, “Embrace Change…”

Alright Transformers fans looks like we been strongly hinted about the sequal after all, we know we have watch the movie and I look in the internet, and I fine out Bumblebe has a parther Arcee in the comics and the next year we all know Bumblebee and Arcee will fallen in love with each other like in the comic book, and so as for Optimus Prime and Elita 1, which means they going to have autobabies when they mate and they’ll be togather forever.

Bumblebee
+
Arcee

Come on guys do it for Bumblebee and Arcee’s love. For Transformers for cybertron and for Earth!

Alright Transformers fans looks like we been strongly hinted about the sequal after all, we know we have watch the movie and I look in the internet, and I fine out Bumblebe has a parther Arcee in the comics and the next year we all know Bumblebee and Arcee will fallen in love with each other like in the comic book, and so as for Optimus Prime and Elita 1, which means they going to have autobabies when they mate and they’ll be togather forever.

Bumblebee
+
Arcee

By the way, nobody has the balls to challenge my testament from earlier, about “Frenzy” and the original transform sound and other anomilies from the movie?? As Ice Cube would say “Come on n’ fuck wit it”.

Let me say right now that I’ve never watched TF as a cartoon and really don’t know the history, background of it. So I saw transformer with fresh eyes. I see this debate here and part of me things that you guys (the dissers) just like to read yourselves as you are just repeating and repeating the same thing, the other side of me somewhat understands where you are coming from because you are purist, tunnel vision (older dudes!). I don’t know why you guys are throwing Bay under the bus. I mean before he even started playing with the characters, Bay had to get the OK of the TF Gods didn’t he? Somebody had to authorize the story line, script and character depictions and so on. So if nobody did well, then, it certainly isn’t Bay’s fault if they OK’d it the way it was portrayed. I know it worked for me and for millions of people out there. It’s easy to talk trash when you are sitting at a keyboard and spend your day looking for bugs in somebody elses soup. I don’t think you guys are being fair. Do you realize the amount of work it took to make this film and $$? The special effects are incredible and the ensemble cast is awesome. Of all the post on here, you guys have voiced maybe 4% positive comments. You are spending so much time on something you seem to detest, what a waste of time, move on then! If you guys are really “true fans”, as somebody else said in a previous post, you should be grateful that Bay and Co. brought TF back and exposed it to a new generation. Guess what out-houses and wood stoves worked well too in the past, do you guys ever wonder why they changed the design and updated it with the times? Well, that’s my take on it.

I want to open up an old argument with you Vengeful NERD, you see I stumbled on a very interesting clip of the famous battle between OP and Megatron in the animated movie back in ‘86 (you know the one where hotrod decides to interupt the proceedings and brought on the death of OP) anyway, go to this site http://WWW.HASBRO.COM/TRANSFORMERS/UNIVERSE, watch the clip and tell me what you see and think..?? You will not be disappointed, because if a clip like this can be done on a limited budget, can you imagin what $173 million can do..?? You see Venegeful NERD, you have the mentality much like Michael Bay and other in a way that… you feel as though everything old needs changing for it to appeal, without trying other things first and see if they work..

Why can’t boxy characters work..?? Is the very question that started most debates and arguments on this forum, but seeing this clip brings me back to the question… why not..?? I have said time and time again that boxy characters can work just as well as organic ones used in the movie (which I kinda liked) fair enough the clip is not as polished and is flawed in the animation department, but hey, limited budget vs $173 million budget, yet it turned out better then Bay’s attempt (and it only goes for a few minutes).. What does that tell ya..?? Yes it is computer generated compared with Bay’s live action, but if Bay put a bit more effort… who knows what could have been.. Hiding behind such lame responses like ‘because it won’t appeal’ or ‘boxy characters won’t work’ or this or that really doesn’t show that you have clear understanding of the topic.. Venegeful NERD, you are nothing more then a puppet that jumps on the band wagon without a clear motive.. I won’t revert to the ‘true fan’ comment as that was kinda hasty of me making such a call, but I am just as much a ‘die hard’ fan as most of the REAL fans on this forum.. What I will say is that your a pretender.. I have proven my points time and time again, and this clip just makes it all the more sweeter..

You know…quite frequently I happen to be minding my own business, legitimately googling something for my own personal knowledge. I was watching the 1080p of Transformers because we just recently got our 720p TV and 1080p projector, and considering I already knew at this point the sequel comes out before long, I wanted to find out the plot, because I along with many other Transformer fans had some hope about what it might be. Fortunately, I stumbled upon this retard. I love when this happens, I go through the process of registering for forums and websites just so I can tell you how big of a retard you are.
Wookie your arguments are so full of gaping holes and baseless personal opinion, which I might add you have never referenced any support from anyone for your radical and stupid statements, I have no choice but to troll the bejesus out of you.
First of all, you obviously watched the movie, rendering your entire argument moot. You saw the movie, and whether or not you paid for it, WATCHING Michael Bay’s crap just empowers him to continue. Personally, I along with most sane tasteful people hate Michael Bay and what he does and what he stands for. Regardless of that, we all saw the movie, and we’ll all see the sequel, so you may as well shut up about Bay sucking because it’s common knowledge he’s a general visionless sellout. However, enough degression.
Every transformers fan on the planet saw and loved this movie, no matter how much they think Transformers was warped and raped. The creators of the movie altered the voices and appearances of the Transformers to make them BELIEVEABLE. You idiot. If you had bothered to watch the bonus disc you would understand the reasons for the changes. Transformers was a cartoon. As such, for various reasons, such as color, proportion, shape, character design, the way the Transformers looked back then can not be feasibly converted into a live action film and be taken seriously. The old transformers would look retarded translated into a 2009 generation movie, with the amazing special effects capabilities we have these days, it’s a crime not to maximize every visual aspect of your movie if you have the opportunity. If there is a character, a giant autonomous robot for example, on the theater screen, you as a director and a producer want something people will LOOK at. A giant white box compared to something with texture and personality and eye candy sells a lot more tickets, appealing to multiple audiences. People who want to see something interesting, not something boring. Let’s face it, the appeal of Transformers was not the story. The story is not bad, but if it were human beings instead of 10 meter alien organisms, would you care? No one would.
On another note, I have to go on record and say this movie did not suck at all. It featured very uncommon actors, with the exception of Voight, and although it was Micheal Bay-y and had a lot of special effects and cheesy humor and cliches, it was everything I expected from a Transformers movie. My only complaints were that we were used to seeing the Transformers in a setting where they seemed normal sized, instead of in comparison to people who are much smaller (usually), so you rarely got to see a good shot of the Transformers entire bodies.
However, again I must point out what a dipshit you are Wookie. You actually have the audacity to say Spielberg sucks. Are you 12 years old? Do you have any comprehension of Spielbergs filmography? Schindler’s List, Indiana Jones, Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Jurassic Park, Catch Me If You Can, The Terminal, ER, Arachnaphobia, Joe Vs. The Volcano, Land Before Time, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Goonies, Money Pit, ET, Jaws, Hook? Need I continue? Steven Spielberg has been responsible for a massive chunk of the most successful and substantial video productions in our lifetime and you have the audacity to call him bad. Go die in a fire.

It seriously DOESN’T matter what details they change. We’re not talking about Battletech vs Mechwarrior Dark Age, or Star Wars, or the differences between BSGs, the details are completely irrelevant. The point is that Transformers continues to live on in a similar fashion to its heritage.

Geebus Christ. Look, I dislike Michael Bay quite a bit. He is a total Hollywood tool. He could make decent Car commercials and thats about it. Armageddon decided to take every law of physics and toss it out the window all for the sake of making a film he thought would be easier to sell to audiences. And with Transformers he followed the standard line of changing whatever he felt necessary to make the movie more entertaining to the general audience.

That said, I’ve learned to let go of all that. Why? How? Because at the end of the day, it’s my 10-15 dollars and I went in there to be entertained. If I’m overly critical, I’ll just spoil my own good time. The douche-bag will continue to make movie, whether we all like it or not. So just sit back, replax, enjoy, or shut the fuck up. Yes the characters were all messed around, yes they are were changed. Yes super hotties were grossly miscast into techie roles. Yes the movie was pumped full of product placement. But you know what? I don’t give a shit because I don’t want to. It was just Armageddon with robots. If you dislike it that much, go stand outside Bay’s house and protest. When you can get him to admit he’s a lowsy director and give away his phat cash, give us a call.

Hey there seems to be a lot of disgruntled fans of the live action movie out there. How about you all pool your money and make a film the way you all want it? Instead of using this site to complain about what others have created, why not write ideas that can be created into your very own movie. I’m sure there is enough people out there willing to contribute. It could be a grand thing, a movie created by the fans, for the fans.

Have any of you ever seen the sun? Seriously. I came in here looking for a couple teasers on the new flick ad found you basement-dwelling fanboys trolls debating a fucking movie as though it were nuclear disarmament.

All of you need to grow up and get a life. If you didn’t like the movie, then fine. Shut up. If you did, then great. Hope you like the new one. Now shut up.

C’mon man…damn. For starters, I am older, I grew up on the original Transformers and can remember perfectly the excitement at seeing the original movie/cartoon. I dont see how it matters that OP isnt a cab over, he is still a semi. w00kie, you yourself said early what does it matter if BB was a bug instead of a camaro, well, exactly…what does it matter? Which means it doesnt matter if he was camaro instead. I am a huge fan of Transformers and still to this day have the majority of all the original toys…I just seem to keep things and call them “collectables” so I still have them all. I loved the movie and think that it made it better that they updated them. Sure some of it was for product placement, but I think in present time that BB as a VW Bug would have sucked, I even think that and I’ve always loved BB. You have said that the director never watched Transformers before doing the film, but he did watch them and learn about the story after taking the job and before doing the film. The movie gave a “fresh” look to a cartoon series that was very much “dated” when it came to its vehicles and weapons. Since the originals were dated, it only makes sense that they should again be dated in the present when making a “remake”. The fact that I liked the changes doesn’t make me less of a fan and the fact that you didnt like the changes doesnt make you an idiot like some of the posts have put out there, it’s just opinions, and in my opinion…someone who loves the Transformers is right, no matter where that opinion goes from there. Now lets start looking at a Thundercats remake….lol, lets go old school on these kids and their “new age” nickolodean cartoon crap. Bring back all the good “oldies” that we grew up on. LOL